Trump Impeached For Second Time, Subpoenaed For First Time - What's Next?

NDPP, why are you opposed to the upcoming trial of Trump in the Senate? Why should Trump not be held accountable for his actions when the people who followed him will be sentenced to heavy jail time? Why should Trump be irreproachable? Should Biden also be irreproachable?

NDPP, what will you say if the trial in the Senate goes ahead?

Even Turley concedes there is precedent.  Although it's certainly counterintuitive.  But not when you consider the punishment phase-potentially being barred from ever again holding high office.  

It seems to me in this constitutional matter of whether or not the Senate can try an ex-President the precedents are not definitive. Trying to say that someone supports Trump because they think one set of precedents will win a legal case compared to the counter argument is disingenuous partisanship not good political studies or legal analysis.

I am going to predict that the Democratic MSM will scream about this case being open and shut but in the end the Republican dominated SCOTUS will have the last say. It seems to me that impeachment is a toll to remove someone from office and that is its primary purpose. From a legal perspective I would far rather see Trump charged with criminal offenses instead of having another show trial in the US Congress. I find the persistent partisan show trials to be largely farcical events. When you know the outcome because it is a partisan ritual it is hardly what any jurist would call a trial.

Trump impeached amid efforts to silence him

https://twitter.com/johnpilger/status/1349675799276892160

"To make sense of the circus events in the United States, I recommend taking the time to read this incisive piece by Joe Lauria. It's rare journalism."

A noose is a symbol of white supremacy not justice.

Why should Trump's loyal naive followers go to prison and serve lengthy sentences while Trump? their leader, remains unpunished?

Watching this again I can't help but conclude that  Trump is a fascist:

https://youtu.be/UBp42536IhE

Mobo2000 wrote:

The article linked at post 164 is excellent.   It also provides the transcript of the speech Trump gave to the 30,000 people gathered.   

It wasn't one speech. There had been incitement since November.

bekayne wrote:

Mobo2000 wrote:

The article linked at post 164 is excellent.   It also provides the transcript of the speech Trump gave to the 30,000 people gathered.   

It wasn't one speech. There had been incitement since November.

Exactly.  It was a 2 month campaign of lies and incitement.

bekayne wrote:

Mobo2000 wrote:

The article linked at post 164 is excellent.   It also provides the transcript of the speech Trump gave to the 30,000 people gathered.   

It wasn't one speech. There had been incitement since November.

You also need to take into account that many in the audience were QAnon followers, who believed that Trump was commanding them to start the events that would lead to the end of rule by the pedophile cannibals of the international elite. It was even reported that many of those who made it into the Capitol were expecting to get further instructions from Trump once they broke in. Trump has been asked about QAnon many times, and all he ever says is that they hate pedophiles, and he thinks that is peachy. In my opinion, whaterver the legalities may be, Trump intended those people to conduct a violent, riotous protest and he couldn't have cared less about the consequences (until later in the day, when his staff forced him to call off the dogs).

JKR wrote:

Watching this again I can't help but conclude that  Trump is a fascist:

https://youtu.be/UBp42536IhE

Was that Hong Kong or Washington? Fascists storming legislatures are hard to tell apart.

The American election was not a democratic election by any international standard. The oligarchy with its unlimited buying of votes stole the election from any citizen initiative that one could dream about for America. The farce that is a US Presidential campaign is not democracy so please stop pretending it is. Its time for regime change and a new constitution.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

JKR wrote:

That noose was erected by Trump's white supremist mob that stormed the Capitol. Trump's mob will face justice. They will serve very long sentences in prison. Their leader, Heir Trump, will try to throw them all under the bus. That's Trump's idea of justice.

Why repost it. It is gross and disgusting and racist. What was your fucking point in reprinting racism.

My point was to illustrate the racism of Trump's  mob that stormed the Capitol. I agree that the gallows erected in front of the Capitol  by Trump's mob was gross and disgusting so I have removed the picture.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The American election was not a democratic election by any international standard. The oligarchy with its unlimited buying of votes stole the election from any citizen initiative that one could dream about for America. The farce that is a US Presidential campaign is not democracy so please stop pretending it is. Its time for regime change and a new constitution.

I agree that the U.S. needs to greatly amend or even replace their constitution. Biden and the Democrats support a constitutional amendment to repair the great damage to American democracy caused by the Supreme Court's horrible Citizens United decision. The Citizens United decision was established by the Republican appointed justices and is currently supported by Republicans including disgraced ex-president Trump.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

I agree that the Citizens United decision makes the U.S. essentially not a democracy. That terrible decision enabled Trump to attain power.

More on incitement:

Here is the lead from the article of impeachment:

“President Trump repeatedly issued false statements asserting that the Presidential election results were the product of widespread fraud and should not be accepted by the American people or certified by State or Federal officials.

Shortly before the Joint Session commenced, President Trump addressed a crowd at the Ellipse in Washington, DC. There, he reiterated false claims that ‘we won this election, and we won it by a landslide.’

He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged—and foreseeably resulted in—lawless action at the Capitol, such as: ‘if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country anymore.’

Thus incited by President Trump, members of the crowd he had addressed, in an attempt to, among other objectives, interfere with the Joint Session’s solemn constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential election, unlawfully breached and vandalized the Capitol, injured and killed law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress, the Vice President, and Congressional personnel, and engaged in other violent, deadly, destructive, and seditious acts.”

Josh and Bekayne, you cool with that?   Sound good to you?

Glenn Greenwald writes on the dangerous Democrat incitement to political witch-hunting, censorship and a war on 'domestic terrorism.' Unfortunately, as usual, some babblers seem eager to urge on just such reactionary 'friendly fascist' repression.

Greenwald: The New Domestic War on Terror is Coming

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-new-domestic-war-on-terror-is-

'No speculation is needed. Those who wield power are demanding it. The only question is how much opposition they will encounter'  **Must Read**

"...An entire book could- and probably should - be written on why all this is so concerning. For the moment, two points are vital to emphasize. First, much of the alarmism and fear-mongering is being driven by a deliberate distortion of what it means for speech to 'incite violence'. The bastardization of this phrase was the basis for President Trump's rushed impeachment last week. It is also what is driving calls for dozens of members of Congress to be expelled and even prosecuted on 'sedition' charges for having objected to the Electoral College certification, and is also at the heart of the spate of censorship actions already undertaken and further repressive measures being urged.

This phrase - 'inciting violence' - was also what drove many of the worst War on Terror abuses. It is vital to ask what it means for speech to constitute 'incitement to violence' to the point that it can be banned or criminalized. The expression of any political viewpoint, especially one passionately expressed, has the potential to 'incite' someone else to get so riled up that they engage in violence.

If you claim that George W Bush stole the 2000 and/or 2004 elections - as many Democrats, including members of Congress did - you may inspire civic unrest or violence against Bush and his supporters. The same is true if you claim the 2016 or 2020 elections were fraudulent or illegitimate. If you rage against the racist brutality of the police, people may go burn down buildings in protest - or murder randomly selected police officers whom they have become convinced are agents of a racist genocidal state.

The Bernie Sanders campaign volunteer and hard-core Democrat partisan, James Hodgkinson, who went to a softball field in June, 2017 to murder Republican Congress members - and almost succeeded in fatally shooting Rep Steve Scalise (R-LA) - had spent months listening to radical Sanders supporters and participating in Facebook groups with names like 'Terminate the Republic Party' and 'Trump is a traitor.' As CNN reported, 'his favorite television shows were listed as Real Time with Bill Maher,' 'The Rachel Maddow Show,' 'Democracy Now' and other left-leaning programs.'

Despite the potential of all of these views to motivate others to commit violence in their name - potential that has sometimes been realized - none of the people expressing these views, no matter how passionately, can be validly characterized as 'inciting violence' either legally or ethically. That is because all of this speech is protected legimate speech..."

Especially if you have a majority.

NDPP wrote:

Glenn Greenwald writes on the dangerous Democrat incitement to political witch-hunting, censorship and a war on 'domestic terrorism.' Unfortunately, as usual, some babblers seem eager to urge on just such reactionary 'friendly fascist' repression.

Greenwald: The New Domestic War on Terror is Coming

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-new-domestic-war-on-terror-is-

'No speculation is needed. Those who wield power are demanding it. The only question is how much opposition they will encounter'  **Must Read**

"...An entire book could- and probably should - be written on why all this is so concerning. For the moment, two points are vital to emphasize. First, much of the alarmism and fear-mongering is being driven by a deliberate distortion of what it means for speech to 'incite violence'. The bastardization of this phrase was the basis for President Trump's rushed impeachment last week. It is also what is driving calls for dozens of members of Congress to be expelled and even prosecuted on 'sedition' charges for having objected to the Electoral College certification, and is also at the heart of the spate of censorship actions already undertaken and further repressive measures being urged.

This phrase - 'inciting violence' - was also what drove many of the worst War on Terror abuses. It is vital to ask what it means for speech to constitute 'incitement to violence' to the point that it can be banned or criminalized. The expression of any political viewpoint, especially one passionately expressed, has the potential to 'incite' someone else to get so riled up that they engage in violence.

If you claim that George W Bush stole the 2000 and/or 2004 elections - as many Democrats, including members of Congress did - you may inspire civic unrest or violence against Bush and his supporters. The same is true if you claim the 2016 or 2020 elections were fraudulent or illegitimate. If you rage against the racist brutality of the police, people may go burn down buildings in protest - or murder randomly selected police officers whom they have become convinced are agents of a racist genocidal state.

The Bernie Sanders campaign volunteer and hard-core Democrat partisan, James Hodgkinson, who went to a softball field in June, 2017 to murder Republican Congress members - and almost succeeded in fatally shooting Rep Steve Scalise (R-LA) - had spent months listening to radical Sanders supporters and participating in Facebook groups with names like 'Terminate the Republic Party' and 'Trump is a traitor.' As CNN reported, 'his favorite television shows were listed as Real Time with Bill Maher,' 'The Rachel Maddow Show,' 'Democracy Now' and other left-leaning programs.'

Despite the potential of all of these views to motivate others to commit violence in their name - potential that has sometimes been realized - none of the people expressing these views, no matter how passionately, can be validly characterized as 'inciting violence' either legally or ethically. That is because all of this speech is protected legimate speech..."

Incitement is clearly defined in the law as creating the imminent threat of violence.   But for impeachment purposes, incitement is an abuse of power, and a violation of a president's oath of office.

Trump as Othello in a Corporate Theater

https://www.blackagendareport.com/trump-othello-corporate-theater

"Donald Trump has slunk off the national stage for the time being, but we must remember who made him a contender for president in the first place: The Democrats and their corporate media. As Wikileaks revealed, the Clinton campaign encouraged friendly media to boost Trump's Republican primary prospects, hoping to set up a straw man that could be easily knocked down in November, 2016. By Election Day, the corporate press had lavished $5 billion on free media on Trump - more than Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and all of Trump's presidential competitors combined. If you are desperate to wash the stink of 4 years of Trump out of your brain, remember who put it there.

The only way the corporate Democrats can mobilize their base to eke out slim national victories while keeping Joe Biden's  promise to the rich that 'nothing would fundamentally change', is to position themselves as the sole defense against the racist hordes. The corporate Democrat/racist Republican symbiosis is simple, obvious and naked - yet it works every time, as the Democratic Party's base with Blacks at the core - allows its own aspirations to be sacrificed in the interest of turning back the threat from the White Man's Party (GOP).

If I have repeated myself over the years in these pages, it is because the oligarchy keeps using the same formula to defeat every popular revolt against the corporate Race to the Bottom and endless Imperial wars. The dictatorship of the rich grows deeper, even as last summer saw the greatest popular mobilization in the history of the United States, under the Black Lives Matter banner. What should have been a re-emergence of an independent, people's mass street politics outside the corporate kill-zone of the Democratic Party, was once again devoured by the duopoly.

Joe Biden's call for 'unity' is even emptier than Barack Obama's 'hope and change'. In response to the Trump inspired racial hooliganism at the US Capitol, we are expected to unify behind a 9/11 type expansion of the police state whose main mission has always been to repress non-Whites and the left, while forgoing creation of a truly public health system and any respite from the accelerating Race to the Bottom - all because 'Joe', the Great Incarcerator, corporate stooge and warmonger 'saved' us from Trump. Too late for Hillary Clinton, but just in time for the equally loathsome Joe Biden, Trump the strawman has finally been knocked down, giving the Democrats a victory that costs their corporate masters nothing.

The assent and subsequent dismantling of Trump, largely engineered at all stages by corporate Democrats and their media, created an alternative, artificial and mainly 'fake' political landscape in which 'the Russians' teamed up with white nationalists to undermine 'America' at home and abroad, only to be thwarted by an aroused electorate, with Black voters at the phalanx. In reality, Black voters have 'saved' the corporate duopoly that has nullified and coopted every popular movement of the past 3 generations...

NDPP wrote:

Is that the new term for everyone opposing election-rigging by Democrats?

People who were duped into thinking the election was rigged are waking up now to the fact that they were horribly manipulated:

‘We really are the cucks’: QAnon adrift after Trump ‘fails to ascend as God Emperor'

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"In the weeks leading up to Biden's inauguration, the worst elements of Trump's coalition— Nazis, white supremacists, Q-mesmerized "patriots," Proud Boys, Telegram lurkers, and all-purpose far-right sh*tlords—managed to hold out hope. On one website for Trump fans banished from Reddit, TheDonald.win, many users had assured one another that not only would Biden never take office, but that Trump, naturally, would never leave it," Vice explained. "Instead, they claimed to each other—in a refrain that was once ironic and seemed less so all the time—that he would ascend to the role of 'God Emperor.' On the morning of January 20, QAnon fans urged each other to 'Enjoy the show,' dotting their posts with popcorn emojis, meant to symbolize all of them sitting back and watching Armageddon rain down on the Satanic cabal they'd been led to believe rules the world."

"As new President Joseph R. Biden took his oath of office, his hand atop a massive family Bible, confusion, anger, and grief washed over some of the worst corners of the Internet," Vice reported. "Refugees from the QAnon conspiracy subreddit, now huddled together on a new website, took turns assuring each other that everything they were seeing was all part of the unfolding of the grand Plan they'd spent years breathlessly awaiting. 'I HAVE ZERO DOUBTS,' one wrote. But others weren't so sure. 'WTF?,' another wrote. 'He's being sworn in now.'"

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JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Is that the new term for everyone opposing election-rigging by Democrats?

People who were duped into thinking the election was rigged are waking up now to the fact that they were horribly manipulated:

Tell me JKR do you really believe that in various states political operatives from both parties did not likely try every dirty trick in the book to win the election? The fact is that the Democrats say that the Republicans are white supremacist fascists and the Trumpites say that the Democrats are deep state fascist. Personally I tend to think they are both right.

 I have been following US politicians since I was a teenager in the late '60's when my US political heroes where Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin and Malcolm X. I remember Tricky Dicky and that was his nickname before he became President. The US political system has been a failed democracy for the fifty years I have followed it. I would be astounded if no political operative in the US tried to fix the election but that is just based on my "gut feeling."