Grave of 215 First Nations children at residential school found in Kamloops BC

205 posts / 0 new
Last post
NDPP

#ColonizationIsGenocide

https://twitter.com/1mohawklawyer/status/1407860311189827590

"We must never lose sight of the fact that the Canadian policy that brought this horror is still with us. Colonialism continues..."

jerrym

Here's more on the discovery of 751 unmarked graves nearby the former Marieval Indian Residential School in a cemetery. I am afraid we are going to see many more of these and the memories of this will haunt indigenous people for generations. After, at the age of eleven, seeing the rubble of three homes where people, many of were whom relatives, in the 1840s starved to death in the Irish Famine the memory still bothers me. I am are talking about six generations later. People go on living but don't think there is "closure" for such horror stories whether here or elsewhere, because that would dishonour those who died as a result of these events. Forty years later my Irish relatives told me that another of my great-great-grandmothers was one of the few survivors of Cill Rialaig village, a famine village that has been rebuilt as a monument to those who died. Hopefully Canada will be able to build such memorials by and under the direction of its indigenous people. 

The Cowessess First Nation announced a preliminary finding Thursday of 751 unmarked graves at a cemetery near the former Marieval Indian Residential School.

The Marieval Indian Residential School operated from 1899 to 1997 in the area where Cowessess is now located, about 140 kilometres east of Regina. Children from First Nations in southeast Saskatchewan and southwestern Manitoba were sent to the school.

The First Nation took over the school's cemetery from the Catholic Church in the 1970s.

Earlier this month Cowessess started using ground-penetrating radar to locate unmarked graves. It was not immediately clear if all the remains are connected to the residential school. 

Cowessess Chief Cadmus Delorme spoke at a virtual news conference Thursday morning. 

"This is not a mass grave site. These are unmarked graves," Delorme said. 

Delorme said there may have at one point been markers for the graves. He said the Roman Catholic church, which oversaw the cemetery, may have removed markers at some point in the 1960s.

He said it was not immediately clear if all of the unmarked graves belonged to children, but that there were oral stories within Cowesses First Nation about both children and adults being there. 

He said some of the remains discovered may be people who attended the church or were from nearby towns.

Delorme said some 44,000 square metres of area were searched by technical teams from Saskatchewan Polytechnic, which the First Nation partnered with for the search.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/cowessess-marieval-indian-re...

jerrym

Former Justice Minister Jody Wilson Raybould has called out Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett over her  “racist” and “misogynist” comment on the same day of the discovery of the 751 unmarked indigenous graves in Saskatchewan. Bennett's one word comment "Pension", referring to the fact that Wilson Raybould would not get a pension if she lost the next election if it were called in the early fall, suggests that Wilson Raybould is only in politics for the pension. Considering Bennett's long history of pious words and zero action with regards to indigenous issues that she had something to affect, I find her actions particularly insulting, especially on a day that must strike indigenous people with fear that many more unmarked graves will be found, quite possibly on their own reserves. 

Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett has admitted to, and apologized for, sending Independent MP and former Liberal justice minister Jody Wilson Raybould a text message that Wilson-Raybould called “racist” and “misogynist.”

On Thursday morning, Wilson-Raybould tweeted a screenshot of a text message that Bennett sent her, in which Bennett asked: “Pension?”

The comment seemed to suggest that Wilson-Raybould calling for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to stop “jockeying for an election” was prompted by her own desire to maintain her MP pension, and not because the nation continues to grieve the growing number of unmarked graves being discovered at former residential school sites. ...

MPs qualify for pensions after holding office for six years, a milestone Bennett has already achieved, having been first elected in 1997.

Responding in a tweet of her own, Bennett admitted that she sent the message and said that she apologized directly to her former cabinet colleague.

“Earlier I offered my apologies directly to the MP for Vancouver-Granville. I let interpersonal dynamics get the better of me and sent an insensitive and inappropriate comment, which I deeply regret and shouldn’t have done,” Bennett said.

Bennett and Wilson-Raybould worked alongside one another in the federal cabinet between 2015 and 2019. Wilson-Raybould, who was Canada’s first Indigenous justice minister, resigned from cabinet in February 2019 and then in April of that year, Trudeau removed her from the Liberal caucus over the SNC-Lavalin scandal. ...

In sharing the text message on social media, Wilson-Raybould called it a “Racist & misogynist text” and said it “reflects notion that Indigenous peoples are lazy & only want $”. Wilson-Raybould said that the minister—who has spent much of her career focused on Indigenous affairs—“shows disregard, disdain, & disrespect for Indigenous peoples.”

Responding to the exchange, NDP MP Charlie Angus said that it was time for Bennett to be “sent packing.” B.C. MP and Conservative Mark Strahl said that Bennett’s comment sought to “denigrate” Wilson-Raybould, who in his view “has more integrity and is more respected than Justin Trudeau and his entire cabinet combined.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/wilson-raybould-calls-out-crown-indigeno...

NDPP

'Canada has admitted broken Indigenous relationships, unlike China on Uyghurs: Trudeau'

https://twitter.com/justinpodur/status/1407843891898843139

"Trudeau is totally right. More than that, at least Canada has mass graves, poisoned water, and constant legal attacks against First Nations as evidence for genocide - China's genocide doesn't have any such evidence."

kropotkin1951

This is the most shared post on FB, in my part of the algorithm. I think it deserves amplifying so I and dozens of others have already shared it.

It is clear that our government will not take the residential school murders as a current criminal investigation. It is also clear that these murders were committed by agencies under the direction of the government.

We need to convince the UN Security Council to appoint an International Criminal Tribunal because this is genocide and it will not be prosecuted by the perpetrators.

NDPP

I agree. China has already suggested it.  And that should have been fairly obvious from the beginning.

"The Indian Residential Schools Truth & Reconciliation Commission is a hoax contrived by the legal establishment to evade culpability..."

A Critique of the Indian Residential Schools Truth & Reconciliation Commission

https://dissidentvoice.org/2008/11/a-critique-of-the-indian-residential-...

bekayne

jerrym wrote:

 

Responding to the exchange, NDP MP Charlie Angus said that it was time for Bennett to be “sent packing.” B.C. MP and Conservative Mark Strahl said that Bennett’s comment sought to “denigrate” Wilson-Raybould, who in his view “has more integrity and is more respected than Justin Trudeau and his entire cabinet combined.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/wilson-raybould-calls-out-crown-indigeno...

Is that the same Charlie Angus that called Wilson-Raybould the worst Minister of Justice?

swallow swallow's picture

NDPP wrote:

"The Indian Residential Schools Truth & Reconciliation Commission is a hoax contrived by the legal establishment to evade culpability

Just another asshole shitting on First Nations people.  

jerrym

Stewart Phillip, speaking as President of the Union of BC Indian Chiefs  and on behalf of them, said that Carolyn Bennett must go following her "pension" comment about Jody Wilson Raybould (JWR) on CBC's Power and Politics. He went on to strongly criticize the Trudeau government over its "theatrical, rhetorical statements and so-called apologies and empty promises".  His full comments are quoted below.

I don't think Bennett has the moral authority or integrity to continue as minister, particularly in these incredibly challenging times with the grisly discovery of unmarked graves at a growing number of residential schools. For her to respond to JWR's concerns about these recent issues that we all know are genocidal in nature with a shallow, insulting, petty remark, such as pensions, it's absolutely inexcusable. It's a failure of her moral authority to continue to hold such an important office in terms of the government's ongoing assertions that relations with indigenous people is the most important matter for them. 

If you reflect back on their cabinet relationship, JWR as attorney general was simply trying to advance the agenda, the commitment and promises made by the Trudeau government and Carolyn Bennett was simply obstructing and not moving the agenda ahead and was very obstructionist.

We need to understand this is much bigger than Minister Bennett and her lame apology. We need to understand this country is racist with regard to the recent discovery of the unmarked graves of our children and residential schools. It takes a high level of integrity and professionalism to hold such an important office as Minister Bennett holds. I think her time is up. I think it's time she step down as a gesture of remorse. Let this be a lesson that we will not stand idly by as the Trudeau government smears our highly respected indigenous leaders, particularly JWR.

(Responding to a question: What about the good work Bennett has done) Where is the evidence of the so-called work? There has not been any substantial progress on the indigenous file for far too long when you talk about the failure on the part of the Trudeau government to follow through on fixing water systems in indigenous communities, when you talk about missing and murdered indigenous women, when you talk about the epidemic of suicides and homelessness, the lack of housing, and the fundamental human rights that involve our basic dignity to have the means and necessities of life that have been denied to us as a result of the incompetence and the lack of commitment to the promises that were made by the Trudeau government.

The Truth and Reconciliation report that was issued several years ago had 94 calls to action. The Trudeau government has failed to move decisively on those recommendations, including those on residential schools. Incompetence in these challenging times in unacceptable. It's time for Minister Bennett to move on and make room for somebody whose competent and understands there needs to be a paradigm shift in the many lofty promises made by Mr. Trudeau himself. 

We're getting tired of the theatrical, rhetorical statements and so-called apologies and empty promises made by the Prime Minister and the very theatrical and trite persona that he advances through the public media. 

We want results. We demand results. 

Our people are dying in the streets of the major cities of this country, our children are continuing to be apprehended in enormous numbers, and the homeless situation is absolutely atrocious. We need competence and we need decisive progress that can be measured rather than this ongoing theatrical rhetoric that we hear from the government far too often. 

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1914128963989

kropotkin1951

swallow wrote:

NDPP wrote:

"The Indian Residential Schools Truth & Reconciliation Commission is a hoax contrived by the legal establishment to evade culpability

Just another asshole shitting on First Nations people.  

You don't know shit about indigenous battle in BC.

The author Dr. Clark was the counsel of choice for most Secwepemc (Shuswap) traditionalists on trial in connection with the month long standoff and siege by the Canadian Army and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) on the Ts'peten Sundance and burial grounds on unceded Secwepemc territory at Gustafsen Lake, near 100 Mile House in central B.C. Dr. Clark has been prevented from appearing in B.C. as part of the legal defence team. He was thrown out of the bar in BC for going into court and trying to argue that the Judge had no jurisdiction on unceded indigenous land. When he persisted with the argument he was ruled in contempt of court.

He has been fighting with the sovereignty movement for decades and against the idea that First Nations are anything other than a racist construct of the Indian Act, that do not embody any nation.

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:
He has been fighting with the sovereignty movement for decades and against the idea that First Nations are anything other than a racist construct of the Indian Act, that do not embody any nation.

I don't understand how arguing against the existence of First Nations is good.  If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you explain? Or am I completely misunderstanding the conversation?

NDPP

'First Nations' or Indian Act Band Councils are imposed administrative units of Canada under the Indian Act. I was told by a former DIA in-house lawyer and advisor that the term 'First Nation' was created to circumvent and evade international law and definitions/entitlements of 'nations,' as well as a 'sweetie' that sounded better to everyone.

According to Clark, under existing constitutional and international law, the Band can only be created by a treaty of informed consent whereby the 'nation' cedes, releases and surrenders sovereignty and jurisdiction to Canada in exchange for the delegated 'Band' or 'First Nation' administrations, which were prematurely and improperly imposed by a colonizing Canada.

This illegal 'usurpation-as-genocide' is the method by which various aspects of Canada's genocide program, whether Band Councils, Residential Schools, resource extraction, courts, ridings or any other invasion of Indigenous national sovereignties and jurisdictions past and present were/are perpetrated.

 

Band (Indigenous Peoples in Canada)

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/band

"Today some bands prefer to call themselves First Nations..."

Edzell Edzell's picture

swallow wrote:

NDPP wrote:

"The Indian Residential Schools Truth & Reconciliation Commission is a hoax contrived by the legal establishment to evade culpability

Just another asshole shitting on First Nations people.  

?? I saw it as exactly the opposite. It's right in the title - "the legal establishment (trying) to evade culpability"

Edzell Edzell's picture

A very balanced, constructive viewpoint from the Cowessess chief. If you can't stand watching Justin, skip to 0:45

EDIT: Wrong link quoted. Please see the right one in my later post.

XX https://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV%20Shows/The%20National XX

Wish we had more people who could think this clearly.

 

jerrym

Pondering wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:
He has been fighting with the sovereignty movement for decades and against the idea that First Nations are anything other than a racist construct of the Indian Act, that do not embody any nation.

I don't understand how arguing against the existence of First Nations is good.  If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you explain? Or am I completely misunderstanding the conversation?

A fuller quote of what Bruce Clark, who is the "he" Kropotkin1951 refers to, was saying will give a better understanding of what he meant. Here it is. Sometimes short quotes don't give the full story. 

The Indian Residential Schools Truth and Reconciliation Commission is a hoax contrived by the legal establishment to evade culpability for its ongoing culling of that part of the indigenous race which relies upon constitutional and international law to protect its human rights. Another part embraced the federal legislation and recently-invented judge-made law under the auspices of which the Indian territories genocidally were invaded, beginning with the 1876 Indian Act. The modus operandi of the legal establishment and its collaborating Indian accomplices is the suppression of the constitutional and international law that the establishment intentionally is breaking.1

“A truth commission or truth and reconciliation commission is a commission tasked with discovering and revealing past wrongdoing by a government, in the hope of resolving conflict left over from the past.”2 The crucial phrase is “wrongdoing by a government.” A “wrongdoing” consists in “wrongful conduct, misconduct, actus reus.”3 “Actus reus” is “the Latin term for the ‘guilty act’ which, when proved beyond a reasonable doubt in combination with the mens rea, ‘guilty mind,’ produces criminal liability…”4 It is specifically crimes or lesser wrongdoings “by a government” that such commissions, if genuine, exist to expose as the precondition to reconciliation based upon truth.

Article 2 of the contract creating the Residential Schools Commission stipulates, “Pursuant to the Court-approved final settlement agreement and the class action judgment, the Commissioners:… (f) shall perform their duties…without making any finding or expressing any conclusion or recommendation, regarding the misconduct of any person, unless such finding or recommendation has already been established through legal proceedings…Further, the Commission shall not make any reference in any of its activities or in its report or recommendations to the possible civil or criminal liability of any person or organization, unless such findings or information about the individual or institution has already been established through legal proceedings.”5

In consequence of these limitations, the commission can not expose wrongdoings of the government. This is not only an expensive fraud upon the public but a cruel imposition upon the victims, who are encouraged to air their innermost suffering in the mistaken belief that it will lead to closure. The commission itself recognizes its task is only, “to document the truth of survivors, their families, communities and anyone who has been personally affected by the Indian Residential Schools (IRS) legacy.” The commission will look at symptoms but neither the cause nor the liability of the causer. It can not and will not investigate crimes by the government.

https://dissidentvoice.org/2008/11/a-critique-of-the-indian-residential-...

jerrym

In addition to Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs President Grand Chief Stewart discussing why Minister of Indigenous Affaris Carolyn Bennett needs to go because of her "pension" comment about indigenous former Justice Minister Jody Wilson Raybould, JWR, (see post #110 for details), others on the Power and Politics June 25th broadcast discussed why Bennett needed to go, tying her comments on the residential school deaths in the process. 

Niggan Sinclair, indigenous professor and journalist: This rancour between Carolyn Bennett and JWR goes all the way back to their days in cabinet. They spent years together in cabinet. Minister Bennett spent almost a decade and a half trying to become the face of indigenous affairs within the Liberal Party. Then JWR comes in, a handpicked candidate. She became the defacto Minister of Indigenous Affairs, although Bennett was the Minister of Indigenous Affairs. The rancour between them is legendary. People tell stories of how Minister Bennett would frequently undermine JWR in the cabinet. It wasn't just SNC Lavelin that led to the rancour over JWR within the Liberal Party. It was also that relationship (with Bennett).

Martin Patriquin, journalist: You can make the case that the reason the Liberals are in the minority is JWR. That enmity stretches across the Liberal Party entirely. The fact that Minister Bennett made a very venal, very partisan attack at the worst possible moment when there are unmarked indigenous graves under people's feet is disgusting. She should not be in her position. I don't see how you could have faith in someone who could act that way on a day like this. The word 'pension' means 'pensionnat' in French, which also means 'residential school'. It is so tone deaf and so awful. I don't see how she is still sitting there. The question is has she done enough to atone for her words. No, because she is going to keep on apologizing. That's the cynical part behind this. It (whether she keeps her job) is going to be whether this hurts the Liberals' fortunes. That's where her fate lies, unfortunately. 

 Niggan Sinclair, indigenous professor and journalist: Minister Bennett has a problem here, not only bad timing, but also insulting arguably the most important person in national mainstream indigenous politics, and particularly in using a term that is not only denigrative , insulting her that she is only in it for the money. Using this term for an indigenous woman, describing her as an indigenous woman as only in it for herself, only out for the money, in the wake of all the concerns about missing and murdered indigenous women and the lack of vision by the Trudeau government, reflects a trifecta of concerns. You've got the residential schools findings happening at the same time you have the missing and murdered indigenous women, insulting indigenous women, all of these concerns around the treatment of indigenous people within the Trudeau's Liberal government. This trifecta may result in Bennett being removed for being the face of this. 

Edzell Edzell's picture

A very balanced, constructive viewpoint from the Cowessess chief. If you can't stand watching Justin, skip to 0:45

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1914227267751

"I love living in Canada .... there is an accidental racism & ignorance in this country when it comes to history .... There's a story behind the history that we inherited .... In 2021 we all inherited this. Nobody today invented residential schools .. the Indian act .. the 60's scoop; but we all inherited this and if we want to say we're proud Canadians the we will accept what we have today .. what we all inherited .... We're asking that you stand beside us. On Canada day, if you say you're a proud Canadian, read the Truth & Reconciliation Commission calls to action."

Pondering

Already we have 215+751 for a total of 966 graves. The count is going to go up for some time to come as the investigations continue.  I think it would be good if rabble put a list on the front page adding to it after each discovery. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/2-more-catholic-churches...

"The investigations into the previous fires and these two new fires are ongoing with no arrests or charges," said Sgt. Jason Bayda with Penticton South RCMP.......

"I'm angry," Crow said. "I don't see any positive coming from this and it's going to be tough."

People in the community are very upset about the fire, Crow said.

Many of them are members of the Catholic Church, he said, and are still grappling with the news from last month that a preliminary scan uncovered the remains of as many as 215 children buried at a former residential school in Kamloops, B.C., about 200 kilometres north of Hedley. 

My sympathies are with whomever burned down the four churches belonging to the business that is denying access to school records that would provide clues to the fate of childen who died at the schools. 

Pondering

jerrym wrote:

Pondering wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:
He has been fighting with the sovereignty movement for decades and against the idea that First Nations are anything other than a racist construct of the Indian Act, that do not embody any nation.

I don't understand how arguing against the existence of First Nations is good.  If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you explain? Or am I completely misunderstanding the conversation?

A fuller quote of what Bruce Clark, who is the "he" Kropotkin1951 refers to, was saying will give a better understanding of what he meant. Here it is. Sometimes short quotes don't give the full story. 

The Indian Residential Schools Truth and Reconciliation Commission is a hoax contrived by the legal establishment to evade culpability for its ongoing culling of that part of the indigenous race which relies upon constitutional and international law to protect its human rights. Another part embraced the federal legislation and recently-invented judge-made law under the auspices of which the Indian territories genocidally were invaded, beginning with the 1876 Indian Act. The modus operandi of the legal establishment and its collaborating Indian accomplices is the suppression of the constitutional and international law that the establishment intentionally is breaking.1

“A truth commission or truth and reconciliation commission is a commission tasked with discovering and revealing past wrongdoing by a government, in the hope of resolving conflict left over from the past.”2 The crucial phrase is “wrongdoing by a government.” A “wrongdoing” consists in “wrongful conduct, misconduct, actus reus.”3 “Actus reus” is “the Latin term for the ‘guilty act’ which, when proved beyond a reasonable doubt in combination with the mens rea, ‘guilty mind,’ produces criminal liability…”4 It is specifically crimes or lesser wrongdoings “by a government” that such commissions, if genuine, exist to expose as the precondition to reconciliation based upon truth.

Article 2 of the contract creating the Residential Schools Commission stipulates, “Pursuant to the Court-approved final settlement agreement and the class action judgment, the Commissioners:… (f) shall perform their duties…without making any finding or expressing any conclusion or recommendation, regarding the misconduct of any person, unless such finding or recommendation has already been established through legal proceedings…Further, the Commission shall not make any reference in any of its activities or in its report or recommendations to the possible civil or criminal liability of any person or organization, unless such findings or information about the individual or institution has already been established through legal proceedings.”5

In consequence of these limitations, the commission can not expose wrongdoings of the government. This is not only an expensive fraud upon the public but a cruel imposition upon the victims, who are encouraged to air their innermost suffering in the mistaken belief that it will lead to closure. The commission itself recognizes its task is only, “to document the truth of survivors, their families, communities and anyone who has been personally affected by the Indian Residential Schools (IRS) legacy.” The commission will look at symptoms but neither the cause nor the liability of the causer. It can not and will not investigate crimes by the government.

https://dissidentvoice.org/2008/11/a-critique-of-the-indian-residential-...

I did read of of that at the link but still wasn't really clear. I get that the Indian act imposed a system of government on indigenous peoples but I am still not clear on why "first nations" is objectionable. I thought it was a gesture of respect to refer to first nations. I don't quite get the legal ramifications. Was it to subvert treaties in some way?

On TRC it makes sense to me that they couldn't determine or assign guilt to individuals as they aren't a court of law or part of the justice system. Their job was just to explore the past and come up with recommendations  for reconcilliation not punishment. 

 

jerrym

It was the goal of the TRC and the renaming of bands as First Nations to create an image of doing more than was actually the case. As 

NDPP wrote

 

'First Nations' or Indian Act Band Councils are imposed administrative units of Canada under the Indian Act. I was told by a former DIA in-house lawyer and advisor that the term 'First Nation' was created to circumvent and evade international law and definitions/entitlements of 'nations,' as well as a 'sweetie' that sounded better to everyone.

According to Clark, under existing constitutional and international law, the Band can only be created by a treaty of informed consent whereby the 'nation' cedes, releases and surrenders sovereignty and jurisdiction to Canada in exchange for the delegated 'Band' or 'First Nation' administrations, which were prematurely and improperly imposed by a colonizing Canada.

 

Changing the name from band to First Nation does not change the relationship between indigenous people and the government, but its good PR. 

Band is a term the Canadian government uses to refer to certain First Nations communities. Bands function as municipalities. They are managed by elected band councils according to the laws of the Indian Act. Today, some bands prefer to call themselves First Nations. As of 2020, the Government of Canada recognized 619 First Nations in Canada. ...

Prior to colonization, various structures of Indigenous government existed across Canada. In 1876, the Indian Act imposed the band system on Indigenous peoples. This was done to control and streamline the governance of local Indigenous populations. The Act defines a band as “a body of Indians” whose use of reserve lands, monies and other resources are managed by the federal government

Today, the Department of Indigenous-Crown Relations and Northern Affairs oversees matters relating to bands, including social services. However, bands function as local governments, which means they manage many of their own affairs, including educationand infrastructure.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/band

NDPP

'First Nation' is now a ubiquitous term used interchangeably to refer to both an Indian Act Band Council or a 'nation'. I use it myself.

But in fact the creation of 'Bands' FNs was an illegal and genocidal  imposition just like the Residential Schools,  by Canada, which according to Clark, can only be created after a treaty of informed consent between 'the nation' and the federal crown (nation-to-nation).

Canada turned the whole process on its head and now negotiates surrenders of powers and jursidictions belonging to 'the nation' with its own federal agents, Bands/FNs akin to municipalities, created for that purpose. The Canadian courts collaborate.

For those interested I recommand Bruce Clark's 2018 collection: Ongoing Genocide Caused by Judical Suppression of the 'Existing' Aboriginal Rights

I got my paperback version here, but there is also a cheaper Kindle edition:

https://www.amazon.ca/Genocide-Judicial-Suppression-Existing-Aboriginal-...

NDPP

 

On Res schools and ongoing usurpation-as- genocide in the settler-state of Canada:

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."  -  Frederick Bastiat -

NDPP

'They need to be charged': Federal minister on residential school perpetrators

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/they-need-to-be-charged-federal-minister...

Government deflects criminal responsibility onto its contractors.

kropotkin1951

The only way to get justice for the victims of this ongoing genocide is with a UN International Criminal Tribunal. No Canadian government will ever bring anyone to a criminal court for these actions and some of these deaths are potentially recent enough to have living perpetrators but we will never know without a proper forensic criminal investigation..

NDPP

anti-spam bump

jerrym

NDPP wrote:

'They need to be charged': Federal minister on residential school perpetrators

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/they-need-to-be-charged-federal-minister...

Government deflects criminal responsibility onto its contractors.

Exactly. The more they get people to focus on those who carried out the government's bidding, the less they focus on who created the system.

cco

And the church prepares its "just following orders" defense.

Pondering

Thank-you for the explanations. 

Edzell Edzell's picture

Trying to assign past blame for where we're at now might feel good but accomplishes little (I think) towards 'reconciliation'. As Chief Cadmus Delorme of Cowessess has said, we all inherited this. It's ours to deal with here and now.

That's not to say we shouldn't each try to understand how & why we got here, or that we should back off on getting full historic information from whomever holds it. But that's only the 'truth' part of Truth and Reconciliation.

Chief Delorme suggests that for Canada Day we read all 94 recommendations of the T-&-R Commission. I've always been disgusted with the attitude of many Canadians towards indigenous people (as a 'newcomer' I hadn't inherited that attitude) but I blush to say I haven't read those recommendations. Probably told myself 'I'm unprejudiced so I don't need to'. Which of course is nonsense - I'm going to download them right now.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Time to TAX the church and prosecute all the pedophiles that molested children. I think Canada owes the Native population Reperations paid for by the Cathoolic church.

kropotkin1951

Edzell wrote:

Chief Delorme suggests that for Canada Day we read all 94 recommendations of the T-&-R Commission. I've always been disgusted with the attitude of many Canadians towards indigenous people (as a 'newcomer' I hadn't inherited that attitude) but I blush to say I haven't read those recommendations. Probably told myself 'I'm unprejudiced so I don't need to'. Which of course is nonsense - I'm going to download them right now.

If you really want to educate yourself then look into The Royal Commission On Aboriginal Affairs that came out in 1996. The Truth and Reconciliation idea is part of its recommendations. However the rest of the recommendations would require that the government actually acknowledge indigenous rights. The Indian Act is unamended over a generation later and the treaty process that was recommended is a one way street to the extinquishment of title and semi-municipality status.

We are honouring the dead children by publicly funding a pipeline through unceded territory without the consent of the nation. The Indian Act bands with lousy infrastructure were approached with offers of millions of dollars for much needed on reserve services. The string attached was that it meant agreeing with the pipeline being built across their Indian Act reserve before the hearings. The other string was that it was a time limited take it or leave it offer and any band counsel that didn't get on the train would not have another chance.

If we had repealed the Indian Act this slight of hand theft from a nation could not occur.

https://rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1100100014597/1572547985018#chp4

kropotkin1951

Here is an indigenous activist perspective on the injunction process which I agree with. I too have been convicted of criminal contempt of court and if I try to block TMX again I will get a minimum of three weeks jail time. It is unclear though because the rule of law in Canada is that the Judge keeps upping the punishment until the protests stop. So I only paid a $500 fie but my same actions by a new protester would get them three weeks in jail at minimum because that is the current deterrent level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfEOB8JJSSM&t=12s

Edzell Edzell's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

If you really want to educate yourself then look into The Royal Commission On Aboriginal Affairs that came out in 1996.

Well, no. I've now looked at enough of the T&R Commission's recommendations to see that I won't be trying to absorb them. They are almost exclusively addressed to government, and in a typical beureaucratic style full of generalities and repetiitons - I could even say padding. Quite disappointing and I'm not looking for more of that sort of reading material.

As regards my own education, in the conventional sense I'm a reasonably educated person. As far as the  treatment of the idigenous people by Canada's governments and 'white' populations is concerned; despite a lack of detailed knowledge in many areas, I think I have a more valid perception of its nature and history than most of the old guard Canadians I know. Thankfully some of them are now beginning to 'get it'.

Quote:
If we had repealed the Indian Act this slight of hand theft from a nation could not ....

If the Indian Act had been repealed without at least a generation's worth of preliminary hard work in good faith (on all sides) towards that specific end, I believe it would have been disastrous for a great many 'Indians.'

(Rhetorical exaggerated cheap shot alert:) The declaration of indendence in India might have looked like a cakewalk by comparison.

 

 

NDPP

Re: the 5th church fire on BC FN reserves. Churches on reserve were frequently the site of suicides by hanging. Can't imagine why. But IMHO the arson is a definite and positive improvement.

Dying to Please You: Indigenous Suicide in Contemporary Canada, by  Chrisjohn & McKay

https://www.academia.edu/30608503/DYING_TO_PLEASE_YOU_Indigenous_Suicide...

NDPP

We don't need your shock, we need reparations and Land Back

https://ricochet.media/en/3705/we-dont-need-your-shock-we-need-reparatio...

"It's time to stop pretending Canada didn't already know about the thousands of dead Indigenous children..."

Edzell Edzell's picture

NDPP wrote:

We we need reparations and Land Back

Given where we're all at now (every one of us, indigenous & otherwise) what could the practial and fair-as-possible details look like? Bearing in mind that most of us inherited this awful mess. How could it be ended with mutual respect (which largely, as yet, doesn't exist.)

The idea of financial reparation is easy to grasp and so is the sentiment behind 'land back' - not hard to empathise with; but in practical terms what does it mean ? What is actually intended, in broad detail?

Looking beyond statements of wide scope, how could real righting of past wrongs really happen? I suspect it can not, and we can only start from where we're at now (which does not mean failing to acknowledge wrongs & injustices both past & present.)

 

 

 

 

NDPP

Calls to Cancel Canada Day Over Burial Site Discoveries

https://youtu.be/aPlgI3uPJbE

"Canada is just days away from its annual birthday bash, but it looks like this year things will be different. A growing number of Canadians are calling for celebrations to be cancelled and that instead the day be used for reflection on the country's sordid past." @ 4:45

I'll be marching against Canada's genocide. Hope many others will do similarly.

jerrym

NDPP wrote:

Calls to Cancel Canada Day Over Burial Site Discoveries

https://youtu.be/aPlgI3uPJbE

"Canada is just days away from its annual birthday bash, but it looks like this year things will be different. A growing number of Canadians are calling for celebrations to be cancelled and that instead the day be used for reflection on the country's sordid past." @ 4:45

I'll be marching against Canada's genocide. Hope many others will do similarly.

Where are you marching?

NDPP

Walk for the Children/Cancel Canada Day, starts at noon, Thursday, Toronto City Hall

NDPP

'Why We're Not Celebrating 'Canada Day'

https://youtu.be/b7vuHSqESW0

Ellen Gabriel, Russ Diabo, Beatrice Hunter

"The sneakiness of Canada disgusts me." - Ellen Gabriel

kropotkin1951

Edzell wrote:

Looking beyond statements of wide scope, how could real righting of past wrongs really happen? I suspect it can not, and we can only start from where we're at now (which does not mean failing to acknowledge wrongs & injustices both past & present.)

In BC the provincial government is subsidizing the Coast pipeline through unceded land and building Site C, both over the objections of the hereditary chiefs. All Canadians are building TMX across unceded land to a port in Vancouver on unceded land.

Land is life and while we are actively stealing it we are still committing genocide. Where are the millions of Canadians standing up to stop this current theft? They are wearing orange and shedding a tear with Trudeau.

jerrym

A third site of unmarked graves and second in BC has been found. Near Cranbrook, 182 unmarked graves have been found close to the Roman Catholic St. Eugene's Mission School. 

A First Nation in B.C.'s South Interior says 182 unmarked gravesites have been discovered near the location of a former residential school.

The community of ʔaq'am, one of four bands in the Ktunaxa Nation and located near the city of Cranbrook, B.C., used ground-penetrating radar to search a site close to the former St. Eugene's Mission School, the Lower Kootenay Band announced Wednesday. 

According to the band, the findings indicated the graves were shallow, about a metre deep. 

"You can never fully prepare for something like this," said Chief Jason Louie of the Lower Kootenay Band, which is a member of the Ktunaxa Nation. 

The finding adds to the growing tally of unmarked burial sites discovered near residential schools across Canada in the past month, including 215 in Kamloops and 751 in Saskatchewan.

St. Eugene's Mission School was operated by the Catholic Church from 1912 until the early 1970s. The building has since been converted into a resort and casino, with an adjacent golf course.

The Lower Kootenay Band says up to 100 of its members were forced to attend the school. 

"It is believed that the remains of these 182 souls are from the member Bands of the Ktunaxa Nation, neighbouring First Nations communities and the community of ʔaq'am," read a media release from the band.

Louie said the nation's leadership met with residential school survivors in the community before announcing the discovery and referred them to support.

"It's very difficult," he said. "It was very impactful when we got the news of the 215 souls that were located in Kamloops. And now it's very, very personal." 

The band says it is in the early stages of learning about the report's findings and will provide more updates. ...

Louie said he wants the Catholic Church to be held legally accountable for operating the schools.  "We were robbed of future elders," he said. "Those children, if they had not passed away, could have been elders and teachers in our communities, the keepers of knowledge. It's devastating." 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-remains-residential-s...

 

Edzell Edzell's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Edzell wrote:

Looking beyond statements of wide scope, how could real righting of past wrongs really happen? I suspect it can not, and we can only start from where we're at now (which does not mean failing to acknowledge wrongs & injustices both past & present.)

In BC the provincial government is subsidizing the Coast pipeline through unceded land and building Site C, both over the objections of the hereditary chiefs. All Canadians are building TMX across unceded land to a port in Vancouver on unceded land.

@kropotkin, you're not addressing my contention (above) that real righting of past wrongs is probably impossible now and we can only start (to reconcile to each other) from where we're at; so I don't know why you prefaced your remarks by quoting me.

I will also point out that I and many others have no choice about having our taxes help to fund projects such as TMX to which our governments are commited, and that I and other taxpayers are in many cases opposed to them.

Quote:
Land is life and while we are actively stealing it we are still committing genocide. Where are the millions of Canadians standing up to stop this current theft? They are wearing orange and shedding a tear with Trudeau.

Stirring rhetoric on the face of it but the deatils are confusing. You ask "Where are the millions of Canadians standing up to stop this ..." Then you answer that "They are wearing orange and shedding a tear with Trudeau."  -  Huh?

There are other very odd things about your comment but I'll leave it at that, exept to note that you seem to harbour a big contempt for millions of people you don't know but like to imagine.

kropotkin1951

"@kropotkin, you're not addressing my contention (above) that real righting of past wrongs is probably impossible now and we can only start (to reconcile to each other) from where we're at; so I don't know why you prefaced your remarks by quoting me."

I addressed your contention by pointing out where the starting point is. The collective "we" as Canadians are currently engaged in genocide and theft of land. If you don't acknowledge that then you are starting at the wrong place. It is not abuses of the past that need righting it is the ongoing beatings and arrests for defending their rights that needs to be stopped. That is the only starting place for reconciliation.

Edzell Edzell's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

"@kropotkin, you're not addressing my contention (above) that real righting of past wrongs is probably impossible now and we can only start (to reconcile to each other) from where we're at; so I don't know why you prefaced your remarks by quoting me."

I addressed your contention by pointing out where the starting point is.

As I said the starting point is "'where we're at' and I'm glad to see that you agree.

Quote:
The collective "we" as Canadians are currently engaged in genocide and theft of land.

With a population of almost 40 million diverse humans I don't think 'collective "we"' is a valid concept; unless of course you've interviewed them all?

The theft of land is and was unjust (and worse). To the extent that more is still being stolen it could and should be stopped, but much theft has been completed long ago and reversing it might be impossible. I myslf own a small piece of land - possibly so do you. It's where my home stands and  where I grow my veggies. I don't intend to 'give it back' and I suspect neither do most private landholders, however sincerely they may deplore the situations of First Nations in Canada, and wish to improve them.

When people talk of 'land back' I approve in principle but I'd like to know the broad details of what they visualize and hope for; how it would be negotiated, how it could work - starting from 'where we're at now'.

'Land back' is a bit like the phrase 'defund the police' which seems to mean very different things - some feasible, some not so much - to various groups of people.

Quote:
If you don't acknowledge that then you are starting at the wrong place.
You don't know what I do or don't acknowledge, probably because you haven't asked.

 

Pondering

As to what we do. We begin by making clean water and decent housing on reserves an emergency priority. We work with communities to keep children out of care or in care within the community. Communities with record suicides must be provided with concentrated community supports from providing respite care to making sure there is a rec centre with lots of room for activities. Food security is also urgent. We need to let the community lead the decisions on what kind of housing they get etc. We need to pay to relocate communities to where they want to be as opposed to where we put them. That may or may not be where they were traditionally.

We need to stop fighting indigenous peoples and honor the treaties we made with them. Obviously we are not going to give back Ottawa. We should not be plowing through indigenous lands for a questionable pipeline. TM cannot be justified on the basis of overwhelming need. Yes it would make Canada a lot of money but it won't destroy Canada if it doesn't go through. It would hurt Alberta more but that is not a justification to plow through unceded lands. We are no different than Israel trying to create facts on the ground that cannot be easily undone. 

My impression is that indigenous peoples are not greedy and don't expect us to give back Ottawa or pay for it. There is no way to pay enough for having destroyed communities by stealing their children. 

Try to imagine that. A community in which all of the children have been taken away and parents and family no longer had any contact with them. They weren't even informed if they died. A community with no children has no future. It will die. Even if children returned once they reached adulthood they no longer knew their language or culture or the social norms or survival skills or even be able to eat the diet. No matter how much love there is they have become strangers. As a parent I can't imagine the trauma of having the government kidnap not only my child but ALL the children. It is a horror story. I don't by the "back then it was different" argument. It wasn't so long ago that we didn't know it was traumatic to separate children from their parents. 

We destroyed these communties. We turned them into places of desperation where people feel they have no future and drown their misery in alcohol and drugs. We traumatized entire communities.

Am I personally responsible people ask? NO, there is no need to feel guilty for things that happened before I was born. There isn't even any reason to feel guilty for what the government is now doing in my name. I don't want them to do it but I can't stop them. What I must do is urge my government to behave responsibly and work in good faith to provide these communities with the resources they need to thrive. It can't happen overnight but even if we were just reasonable and worked with communities in good faith it would give them enormous hope. 

It isn't feasible to give back Ottawa but it is feasible to give a significant piece of land or building in a city for indigenous people to use as a resource be it for emergency shelter or regular rooming house or a place for other services. There should be no homeless people at all but indigenous people in particular should have indigenous led support services in every major city in Canada.

There is so much we could and should be doing to respectfully help them repair their wounded communities. That is our responsibility as a country. I can't be proud of Canada while we are still doing this to indigenous peoples (among our other many sins). 

I would rather that Canada Day become a day to reflect on our failures and how we can do better. 

kropotkin1951

I think our redundant Scottish friend is too ingenious for me. Private land has never been part of the treaty process. Using taxpayer money to steal a pipeline route is not stealing your vegetable plot. But I am sure you know that and are just being an ass.

Edzell Edzell's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think our redundant Scottish friend is too ingenious for me. Private land has never been part of the treaty process. Using taxpayer money to steal a pipeline route is not stealing your vegetable plot. But I am sure you know that and are just being an ass.

Good grief ....

NDPP

Stealing children to steal the land (and podcast)

https://theintercept.com/2021/06/16/intercepted-mass-grave-kamloops-resi...

"Why was this land available to me and my family? What cleared it of its original inhabitants, moved them onto reserve, and in too many cases into the streets? [Or into the graveyard?] What is the precise mechanism of land dispossession?"

#landback

Settlers are much the same everywhere...(except in Canada the true Indigenous owners get 'land acknowledgements' - but no land. This is but one example of what Ellen Gabriel means by the Canadian settler-state's  'disgusting sneakiness'.) In Israel things are clearer 'how the west was won' or where your vegetable garden comes from.

https://youtu.be/KNqozQ8uaV8

Edzell Edzell's picture

NDPP wrote:

Stealing children to steal the land (and podcast)

https://theintercept.com/2021/06/16/intercepted-mass-grave-kamloops-resi...

"Why was this land available to me and my family? What cleared it of its original inhabitants, moved them onto reserve, and in too many cases into the streets? [Or into the graveyard?] What is the precise mechanism of land dispossession?"

#landback

Settlers are much the same everywhere...(except in Canada the true Indigenous owners get 'land acknowledgements' - but no land. This is but one example of what Ellen Gabriel means by the Canadian settler-state's  'disgusting sneakiness'.) In Israel things are clearer 'how the west was won' or where your vegetable garden comes from.

https://youtu.be/KNqozQ8uaV8

I'm asking what 'land back' really means to the people who use the phrase? What concrete and specific goals do they aim for? What actual lands and how much of them; how would they be governed; woulld existing occupants be ousted, or become subject to unfamiliar legal & regulatory sytems; how would all of this be negotiated, agreed, achieved? What is really MEANT by the phrase?

I've long, long ago asked myself the questions in NDPPs  first paragraph - and some even more basic ones, going much further back; about the origins and the very concept of land 'ownership'. But we're all stuck right nowwith where we're AT right now. However desirous we are of changing things, we'd better have a clear idea of what exactly we're aiming for.

 

Pages